John Holliger is well known among Highpower rifle shooters. His company, White Oak Precision, produces some of the finest custom AR-15 rifles available. John is also a Highpower competitor. At the time of this interview his shooting accomplishments included:

• NRA High Master
• Distinguished Rifleman
• President's Hundred (6 times)
• Elihu Root National Civilian Team (3 times)
• Elihu Root National Civilian Team Coach (3 times)
• National Trophy Team First Place Junior Team Coach (5 times)
• National Trophy Infantry Team First Place Civilian Team (1997)
• National Trophy Team High Civilian Team (4 times)
• National Trophy Team High Civilian Team Coach (3 times)
• Illinois State Highpower Champion (2 times)
• Illinois State Service Rifle Champion (2 times)
• Rumbold Trophy Team (2000)
• Pershing Trophy (2000)
• Petroforte Trophy (2001)

This past spring, I had the opportunity to interview John at the Missouri State Service Rifle Championship.

JC How long have you been shooting?

JH I started shooting smallbore rifle in the early 1980's, when I was in high school. I started shooting Highpower in 1986.

JC Have you only shot Service Rifle?

JH No. When I started shooting Highpower I had a Remington 700 Varmint Special. I didn't have any money and I had to make do with what I had. I added a Redfield Palma rear sight and an Redfield International front sight, and shot that rifle for the first year. The next year I decided I wanted to earn the Distinguished Rifleman's Badge so I bought an M1A from Springfield Armory. I went Distinguished with that rifle in 1988.

JC You started shooting in 1986 and went Distinguished in 1988. Did you work your way up through NRA classification?

JH I was a Marksman for a month or two. I was an Expert for a half a season and then received my Master classification. I earned my High Master classification in 1995, still shooting the M1A.

JC When did you start shooting the AR-15?

JH I experimented with the AR-15 in late 1995. My first full season, with the AR-15, was 1996. The Illinois state association purchased a number of AR-15's from Armalite and I shot one of those rifles for part of the season. Later that season, I built my own rifle.

JC How did you start gunsmithing?

JH My dad was an amateur gunsmith. He enjoyed working on guns and everybody in town brought their guns to him for repair. I'd come home from school and there'd be a gun taken apart on the kitchen table. He didn't have a machine shop and did everything with hand tools. My first gunsmithing project was when I was fourteen, when I made a forend for a shotgun. During the mid 1980's I sporterized quite a few Mausers. When I started to shoot Highpower I had a well-known gunsmith work on my bolt rifle. I wasn't overly impressed with his work and started to work on my own competition rifles.

I started coaching the Illinois Junior Highpower Team in 1989. They had M-14's from the DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship, now the CMP). These rifles had been built by various DCM armorers, and had also been worked on by civilian gunsmiths. I eventually rebuilt all of these rifles and it was a great opportunity to see the various ways people built competition M14's. I learned a lot by rebuilding those rifles and came up with a number of my own tricks.

Until the mid-1990's, everyone was shooting M14's, or its commercial version, the Springfield Armory M1A. I maintained all of the Illinois state M14's. When the AR-15 started to gain in popularity, I started to work on those also. I've built all of the Illinois State Highpower Team rifles since 1993.

JC How would you describe the focus of your company?

JH I build premium AR-15 upper receivers for serious Highpower competitors and varmint hunters. All the work is done, personally, by me.

JC Are you building any AR-10's?

JH Yes, I've built a number of them. The AR-10 has the potential of being a very accurate rifle. The available cartridges certainly have a ballistic advantage, over the .223 Remington, at 300 and 600 yards. The downside of the rifle is its weight and length of pull. It's a trade-off.

JC Tell me about your shop and equipment.

JH My shop is located next to my house. I have three lathes, a vertical mill and a surface grinder. Recently, I purchased a TIG welder and I'm learning how to use it. I'm planning to add another large lathe that will be dedicated for barrel contouring. Most of the work is pretty straightforward. My goal is to maintain minimum tolerances while insuring reliable functioning.

JC When did you start doing commercial work?

JH I'd been doing commercial work, part time, since 1995. I became a full-time gunsmith in 2001. After seventeen years running a large printing press, I decided it was time for a change.

JC I'm sure working on AR-15's is quite different than working on M14/M1A's.

JH Very much so. I was able to work on M14/M1A's using hand tools. When I started to work on AR-15's, I quickly realized that I would require machine tools to be an effective gunsmith. I needed to be able to chamber and contour barrels, in addition to modifying existing parts or making new ones.

One of the wonderful things about the AR-15 is also one of its greatest curses. The rifle is so easy to work on. Anybody can pull out the Brownell's catalog and order just about everything he'd need to build an AR-15. At a certain point, though, a competitive shooter needs more than a rifle assembled from pre-manufactured parts. That's where the custom gunsmith come in, and there are a number of excellent ones.

When I build a rifle, I address the customer's specific needs. I can provide different chamber and throat configurations, different barrel contours plus address and improve certain problem areas of the AR-15. In addition, I can offer a level of support that many customers demand.

JC What chamber configurations do you offer?

JH I have a lot of different chamber reamers but I primarily use four. My standard for Across-the-Course rifles is the Wylde reamer, originally designed by Bill Wylde. It has a longer throat than a number of commonly used reamers. I have a CLE reamer for customers who want to match the chamber of another rifle built by CLE. I have a Krieger reamer for use on slow twist varmint barrels, shooting light bullets. I do not recommend the Krieger reamer on Across-the-Course rifles, though. It has a very short throat and can cause pressure problems with some ammo, especially with the tight bore found in Krieger barrels. I also have a special reamer designed specifically for shooting the 90gr. JLK VLD bullets. I always chamber and throat using the same reamer. It's the only way to insure concentricity.

JC What are your thoughts on upper and lower receivers?

JH Uppers and lowers can be broken down into two categories, good ones and bad ones. The good ones are forged but not all of the forged ones are good. If they take the forging and do a poor job of machining it, it won't be a good quality receiver. I've been using Rock River Arms receivers because they do a good job of making parts to spec. Their uppers and lowers are very tight. For a few extra dollars, they will hand select an upper and lower for an even tighter fit.

JC What do you recommend for triggers?

JH The best trigger is the Milazzo-Kreiger but they are difficult, if not impossible, to find. Of the available triggers, I think the Rock River Arms is best. With a little tuning, it is an excellent two-stage trigger.

JC How about single-stage triggers?

JH I don't recommend them. There is no way to eliminate creep and have them last. You need a certain amount of trigger travel to have the disconnector function. You also need a certain amount of sear engagement for safety. A two-stage trigger accomplishes both of those functions with the first stage movement.

JC Whose barrels are you using?

JH In the past, I've used barrels from a number of well-known manufacturers. Most recently, I've been using a lot of 4-groove Shilen barrels. The internal finish is the best I've ever seen. I also use quite a few barrels from Kreiger and Pac-Nor. Pac-Nor offers a wide range of twist rates, making their barrels the ideal choice for special applications. I only purchase barrel blanks, chambering and contouring them in-house.

JC What are you using for float tubes?

JH For Service Rifles, I like the Rock River Arms float tube. It's steel, durable and heavy. With a Service Rifle, you want all the weight you can get. I wasn't impressed with the commercially available Match Rifle float tubes so I designed my own.

JC Are your service rifle front sights special?

JH Yes, they are. I have forged front sight bases machined to my specifications. My supplier does a good job of honing the inside diameter, insuring a tight fit on the barrel. My bases have a pair of opposing set screws at the front, for windage adjustment. At the back, I have a single screw that comes up from the bottom. When you tighten that screw, it draws the sight base firmly against the barrel, insuring a tight seal around the gas port. A number of gunsmiths use two pairs of opposing screws. I don't like that design because it is just about impossible to equally tighten the four screws. Unless the customer specifies something different, my standard front sight post is .052" with tapered sides and top. I can provide any width the customer requests.

JC You extensively modify the standard rear sight base. Why is that necessary?

JH The original design has a lot of inherent problems. There is a rotational play that everybody is aware of. The sight base twists clockwise. If you're not using a hooded aperture, the twist doesn't matter because the aperture is directly above the rotational axis of the sight. With a hooded aperture, the twist is quite distracting. What is a problem, though, is the clearance between the elevation screw and the hole in the upper receiver. In addition, the single ball detent causes problems. When you make an elevation change, the sight base tips left or right, coming to rest at a different position. I've seen as much as .005" movement in the original design. You'd shoot a couple of 10's at 6 o'clock so you'd come up a click. All of a sudden you've got a 9 out the right side. It was because the sight came to rest at a different position when you adjusted your elevation. It was rotating around the ball detent at the front of the sight. Initially, I added a single pin at the front of the sight. Instead of rotating on the ball detent, the sight was now rotating on the pin. When I added a second pin, the rotation was eliminated. Even though the rotation was eliminated, there was still some rocking, due to the excessive clearance between the elevation screw and the receiver. I added a bushing, which eliminated the problem. I also added a second ball detent. Before the modifications, it was common to have .005" lateral movement when making elevation changes. Now its under .0005"

 

I use a standard mil-spec rear sight leaf but order them unthreaded. I tap them to precisely fit the windage screw that I have manufactured to my specifications. Then I drill and tap the leaf to accept interchangeable apertures or a hood.

JC How do you feel about rear sight hoods?

JH I don't like them but everyone seems to want one. Hoods often scratch your glasses and they can easily be knocked out of position. They do, though, allow you to use a lens, if you need one. If you don't need a lens, you don't need a hood. The rear sight is already shaded by the brim of your hat and the ears of the sight base.

JC After you've completed all of the mechanical work, what do you do to a rifle before you ship it to the customer?

JH I take the rifle to the range and zero it. I adjust the position of the front sight base and Loctite it in place. I test fire the rifle for proper functioning and accuracy. After test firing, I clean the rifle, detail it and make whatever minor adjustments are needed.

JC How do you recommend cleaning a rifle?

JH I currently use Hoppe's Benchrest #9 solvent. I run a couple of wet patches down the bore to remove any loose powder and residue. Then I brush the bore with a bronze brush. I follow that with a few wet patches. I dry the bore and oil it. Every few hundred rounds I use JB Compound to remove any copper fouling.

JC Tell me about your 90gr. project.

JH About two years ago, I have several customers that wanted to shoot JLK's 90gr. VLD bullet. I called Pac-Nor and they made up a few 6.5 twist barrels. I built the first rifle for myself. I had run the ballistics and knew I needed at least 2400 fps. During the initial chronograph testing, I easily reached 2600-2650 fps. I took that rifle to Bill Wylde's place, since he's got a 500 yard range. There was a bit of wind but we were getting ½ x ¾ (H x W) MOA groups. I decided I wanted a little more velocity so I had another reamer made up with a longer throat, to seat the bullet out farther. We went from .060" to .106" freebore, gaining some powder capacity and about 50 fps. In Match Rifles, with 26" to 28" barrels, I was approaching 2800 fps. Even with the fast twist, the Sierra 77gr. MatchKings shot extremely well. Maybe the 77gr. bullet needs more twist than we typically give it.

JC Are you personally shooting the JLK 90gr. VLD bullet?

JH No. VLD bullets are a bit finicky. Often, it takes some experimentation before they shoot really well. They don't fit my reloading style. I want to be able to shoot whatever I shot in the last barrel. I don't have the time to for a lot of load development or to constantly chase throat erosion. I shot the JLK 90gr. VLD bullet enough to convince myself they work.

JC What bullets do you shoot?

JH I shoot the Sierra 77gr. and 80gr. MatchKings. They are good bullets and they are easy to get to shoot. They don't care if you jump them or jam them into the rifling. They are very forgiving because they are not a real VLD design and they have a thick jacket. They just shoot. In addition, Sierra does a lot for competitive shooting. They support the shooters and they are always the first out with new products.

JC I've heard some shooters claim that the Sierra 80gr. MatchKing shoots better when you jump it to the rifling. Have you experimented with that?

JH Not a lot. When I first started shooting I was seating them pretty close to the rifling and they shot well. I've had a few customers say that they jumped them a little bit and they shot even better. I'm jumping them about .015".

JC What are your thoughts on coated bullets?

JH I don't use them myself but I have a number of customers that use moly-coated bullets. When I get their guns back, the throat is eroded but not to the extent as some others I've seen. I think there might be something there but not a lot. I don't think it's worth the headache of special cleaning procedures or bore preparation before shooting. I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other.

JC What powder do you recommend?

JH I've been shooting Reloder 15 since I started shooting the AR-15. At that time, I did a fair amount of testing and Reloder 15 worked well. I know that many shooters have had excellent results with Varget, 4895 and the Vita Vouri powders. A lot of the guys working with the JLK 90gr.VLD bullets have had good results with Vita Vouri 540.

JC What primers do you recommend?

JH There is one popular primer that has a very bad tendency to pierce. Piercing will quickly ruin the firing pin and eventually ruin the bolt. I recommend Remington 7 ½ primers. A number of our Illinois shooters have been using CCI BR4 primers with excellent results. They don't seem to have any piercing problems either.

JC Are you building many varmint uppers?

JH Quite a few. I normally use a 1 in 12 twist barrel and have been using a custom modified upper I start with a high-rise upper but then remove and discard the scope mounting rail. I fabricate a custom rail that extends forward of the receiver, allowing for a more forward scope placement. I also build some elevation into the new rail. With the slow twist barrel and light bullets, I routinely get ½ MOA accuracy.

 

JC Do you do anything special on Match Rifles?

JH I move the gas port forward. It's easier on the brass and they cycle a lot softer. The brass does not come out all sooty. I don't use adjustable gas ports and I question their use. If you need to bleed off gas, why did you drill the hole so big? A really big hole in your barrel can't be good. I've learned, through trial and error, what size gas hole to drill.

JC Do you recommend the addition of a side bolt handle on Match Rifles?

JH No. They scare me. When you drill and tap the bolt carrier, the handle is only held in there by two or three threads. I would hate to see one of those things come off, especially with a left-handed shooter. People do it so that they can use an adjustable cheekpiece. I feel that with an adjustable front sight base and an adjustable rear sight base you shouldn't need to adjust the stock.

JC When someone asks for your recommendation on building a Service Rifle, what do you tell them?

JH Order a complete upper from me. Purchase a Rock River Arms complete lower, with their two-stage match trigger. Send the trigger to me and I'll tune it.

If someone's on a tight budget, I offer a couple of options. I can provide a complete upper, based on the Rock River Arms National Match A2. I add a removable rear sight aperture, align the front sight base plus add windage screws, fit the gas tube and check the crown. I can also upgrade the rear sight base to the dual pin design. Add this improved upper to a Rock River Arms lower (with match trigger) and you have a very competitive rifle. When you shoot out the barrel, you replace it with a premium barrel and tune the trigger. You don't have to throw anything away. The second option is to send me a complete National Match rifle for upgrades and modifications.

JC What are your future plans?

JH I'm planning to start doing bolt gun work by the end of the year. I'll provide accuracy services for Across-the Course, Palma, long range and varmint rifles. Also, I'm working on an AR-15 Match Rifle upper receiver specifically designed for Highpower competition. It will have an integral extended rail, with elevation built into it. I'd like to offer an integral rear sight base with elevation adjustment.